FEDS AT ODDS WITH GOVERNORS OVER FLAG
Posted On: June 25, 2007 at 9:35 PM By: deputydan
(Story by Ian Urbina, New York Times)

IRON MOUNTAIN, Mich., — The Stars and Stripes in front of the Veterans of Foreign Wars lodge here flies at half-staff because Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm issued a statewide order to lower the flag for 24 hours to honor a Michigan soldier killed in Iraq

But, at a federal veterans’ hospital in Iron Mountain, Mich., the flag stayed at full staff. A bill would let governors order flags to half-staff. Just blocks away, however, at the veterans’ hospital run by federal officials who say they do not answer to the governor the flag flutters at full staff.

A revered and emotionally fraught symbol, the flag is no stranger to differing opinions about its proper handling. Soldiers have laid down their lives for it, protesters have burned it and lawmakers have considered altering the Constitution to protect it.

But in Michigan, the differing response to Ms. Granholm’s order is part of a broader and, perhaps, more universal wrangle over how to commemorate tragedy when there is so much of it and whether lowering the flag each time a soldier is killed cheapens the tribute by doing it too often.

Since the start of the Iraq war, more than half the states have decided to lower their flags for 24 hours or more when a local soldier dies in combat.

Opponents of lowering the flag see it as a subtle antiwar gesture that may run counter to federal guidelines, which reserve the action for "officials, not soldiers.

Others say that governors have the authority to order such tributes and that fallen soldiers are at least as deserving as politicians. "In the past, soldiers have not been treated well, even though they are giving their lives, so any sign like this of respect is appreciated, said Patricia Walker, legislative chairwoman of the 6,000-member Society of Military Widows. "For military wives, the American flag is part of our family, and showing respect for it and us is deeply important.

Last week, federal lawmakers passed a measure that would give governors the authority to order all officials in their states, including federal authorities, to lower the flag. President Bush has until next week to sign or veto the measure. Although Congressional staff members involved with the measure say

Mr. Bush may want to sign it for patriotic reasons, he may also be reluctant to appear to be ceding power over federal officials to the states.

Under the bill, Mayor Adrian M. Fenty of Washington, a Democrat, would have the same authority as governors, meaning that he could instruct the White House and other federal buildings in the capital to lower the flag.

In states where flags are lowered, the extent of the governors’ orders varies.

Each time a soldier from California is killed, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican, orders American and state flags lowered at the Capitol. In Wisconsin, Gov. James E. Doyle, a Democrat, lowers the flag at all state buildings in such cases. Virginia and New Mexico, both with Democratic governors, lower just state flags.

In Michigan, Ms. Granholm has ordered the lowering of all flags at all state buildings, and urged the same for rest of the state, each time a soldier from the state was killed, or 127 times since December 2003, when she began the practice.

"It is not a statement about the war, but it is a statement about service and about soldiers who have made the ultimate sacrifice, she said.

Signed into law in 1942, the United States Flag Code offers nonmandatory flag etiquette guidelines.

Joyce Doody, executive director of the National Flag Foundation in Pittsburgh, said governors had the authority to order flags flown at half-staff, though her organization suggests lowering state, not American flags, for fallen soldiers.

In times of conflict, the flag should remain at full staff except when a significant numbers of lives are lost, Ms. Doody said. "Of course, one is a significant number lost for the family of the fallen soldier, she added.

In 2004, Paul Vogel of Barrington, Ill., a member of Military Families Speak Out, an antiwar group, helped persuade Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich of Illinois, a Democrat, to lower flags at state buildings for soldiers from the state killed in combat. Last week, state lawmakers passed a law requiring the governor to lower the American and state flags at all state and local buildings. "The half-staff tribute is a way to honor the warrior, not the war, said Mr. Vogel, whose son served in Iraq for a year in 2004.

Other critics of the war take a different view. "I think there is a lot of cheap patriotism, and that includes coming from the president, said Gov. Ted Strickland of Ohio, a Democrat who opposes the war but does not lower flags for killed Ohio soldiers. "I think putting the flag at half-staff is a strong symbolic thing to do. But quite frankly, it’s a fairly easy thing to do. It doesn’t require anything of us either as political leaders or as citizens.

Asked whether lowering the flag might be interpreted as antiwar, a spokesman for Mr. Schwarzenegger, Aaron Mclear, said, "There is no politics involved when it comes to honoring the bravery of California’s fallen soldiers.

Representative Bart Stupak, a Michigan Democrat who sponsored the measure passed last week, said, "No matter what you think of the war, it really hurts military families when there is a lack of consistency in the show of respect.

He said that when the funeral procession for Specialist Joseph P. Micks, after whom the bill was named, passed through the three neighboring towns where he had lived, grown up and worked, some flags at post offices and other federal buildings were up and that others were at half-staff. "The family said it really hurt and confused them why that was the case, Mr. Stupak said.

Behind the counter at the post office in Crystal Falls, Gary Burk said the flag in front was not lowered despite the governor’s order because the decision lay with the postal director of each district. "When we lower it now, people notice it and ask why, Mr. Burk said. "If you lower every time a soldier dies, it will be down so often that people will only notice and ask when it’s up.


Posted on June 25, 2007 at 9:35 PM by deputydan  

To: deputydan
It's spelled "Governors."
1 Posted On: June 25, 2007 at 11:27 PM By: < Former Member >
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To: deputydan
Thanks Jay, had a senior moment.
2 Posted On: June 26, 2007 at 2:50 AM By: deputydan
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To: deputydan
Pinko commie libtard governor Granhomo!

And look, now even reliable patriots are turning into traitors. Time for a purge!

"Sen. Richard Lugar, a senior Republican and a reliable vote for President Bush on the war, said Monday that Bush's Iraq strategy was not working and that the U.S. should downsize the military's role.

The unusually blunt assessment deals a political blow to Bush, who has relied heavily on GOP support to stave off anti-war legislation.

It also comes as a surprise. Most Republicans have said they were willing to wait until September to see if Bush's recently ordered troop buildup in Iraq was working.

"In my judgment, the costs and risks of continuing down the current path outweigh the potential benefits that might be achieved," Lugar, R-Ind., said in a Senate floor speech. "Persisting indefinitely with the surge strategy will delay policy adjustments that have a better chance of protecting our vital interests over the long term.""

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070625/lugar-iraq/

3 Posted On: June 26, 2007 at 10:31 AM By: < Former Member >
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To: deputydan
Your obsession with symbols is reminiscent of the German reverance for the swastika
4 Posted On: June 26, 2007 at 1:03 PM By: < Former Member >
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To: deputydan
As someone stated earlier, I too am beginning to think Frank and Sam are if fact one in the same. Odd how we always hear from both of them within minutes of each other. So my conclusion is they are one or they are spending way too much time together!

Sam, we don't care what Ms Huffington or her staff has to say. She has avoided discussions and been proven wrong almost as often as you. Her credibilty stands right up there with Rosie's.

Frank, we are not obsessed with symbols, we respect what they stand for. Big difference. Again I ask; is there anything you hold sacred Frank? Anything at all?

5 Posted On: June 26, 2007 at 5:52 PM By: Soapbox
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To: deputydan
Liberals have symbols of their own: Che Guevara on tee shirts, the Hammer and Sickle, the ChiCom Red Star, and let us not forget trashing the American Flag.
6 Posted On: June 26, 2007 at 11:53 PM By: Grouchy Hippo
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To: deputydan
SOAPBOX GO BACK TO "WHAT ONE PERSON CAN DO" READ POST # 61 & 63. PS DONT TELL FRANK & SAM !!

I WILL BE AT WALTER REED HOSP. ON JUNE 29TH WITH ALL THE GREAT NC EAGLES TO GIVE A EAGLE WELCOME TO THE CODE PINK SOCCER MOMS., WITH THE GREAT PEOPLE FROM FREE REPUBLIC . I WILL POST PICTURE ON THE NC EAGLES NEST.FROM BOTH W.R. & NJ.

ON JUNE 30 WIE WILL TRAVEL TO FORT MONMOUTH NJ TO JOIN THE NJ EAGLES AT THE FRONT GATE TO MEET THE MOONBAT HORDS.

LUNCH ON THE JERSEY SHORE & ATTENDANCE TO A SMALLER MOONBAT CLOWN PARADE IN A NEAR BY TOWN....LIFE IS GOOD FOR NC EAGLES.!!.

BUBBA , LARRY HOFFA , MIKEB , & A FEW MORE WILL MAKE THE ROAD TRIP.

WILL BE GOOD TO SEE A HONEST,... STRIGHT UP MOONBAT,... FACE... TO,... FACE,

WHEN YOU ARE NOT LOOKING AT THEM STRIGHT IN THE EYE ,... YOU NEVER KNOW JUST WHO, OR WHAT , THEY ARE. NUFF SAID. ?.

FRANK & SAM MY LAST POST TO YOU, EVER NEVER SUCK UP TO ME, EVER!!...BITE ME BIG BOY..

RULES FOR DEALING WITH TROLLS & SOCKPUPPETS.

RULE # 1 NEVER, EVER, FEED THE TROOLS,

THEY WILL STARVE, YOU WILL LAFF., THEY WILL CRY, YOU WILL LAFF,.

RULE # 2 * SEE RULE # 1.......PERIOD!!!.

EAGLES PLEASE FOLLOW FRANK & SAM OVER TO "WHAT ONE PERSON CAN DO" POST # 61 & 63. NUFF SAID.

OK,........ HAVE A NICE DAY !.

7 Posted On: June 27, 2007 at 3:30 AM By: George Samek
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To: deputydan
Mr S

Followed above instructions, You are correct sir but it is so very hard to ignore those who are so misguided. It is just so easy. Kinda like shooting fish in a barrel ; with a M-60. Sometimes I just can't help myself. May need a moonbat 12 step program. Didn't you send Mikeb through that?

I will try to do better in the future and will do my best to follow Rules 1 & 2 above. I will accept extra duty as you fit in as much as I have willing violated said rules on a number of occasions.

Please tell the fine young hereos at Walter Reed that I wish I could be there standing with them. Have a Rolling Thunder event in Jacksonville this weekend and my attendence there is required since the folks from National are coming down.

8 Posted On: June 27, 2007 at 11:45 AM By: Soapbox
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To: deputydan
George my brother and part of his family will be there on June 30
9 Posted On: June 27, 2007 at 5:59 PM By: Joe
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To: deputydan
SOAPBOX, I AGREE, BUT LISTEN VERY CLOSE, YOU WILL HEAR A LOW WAIL, FOLLOWED MY A LOSS OF VOCAL CONTROL, & THEN A CALL FOR YOU TO "STEP UP. BE A MAN ".

AS I SAID, THEY WILL CRY,...YOU WILL LAFF, IF THEY CRY LONG ENOUGHT THEY WILL FIGURE THE GAME HAS RUN OUT AT GOE..

DO YOU AGREE THE GOE IS NOT A COMMIE FUNDED "OP-ED FOR A PLATFORM TO "SCHOOL HOUSE THE GREAT UNWASHED"

NOW, SINCE THIS IS OUR SITE, FROM GRUMPY OLD GRAND DAD'S STACK OF STUFF FOR ALL THE TROLLS & SOCKPUPPETS

THE ART OF WAR TEACHES US TO RELY NOT ON THE LIKELEHOOD OF THE ENEMY NOT COMING, BUT ON OUR OWN READYNESS TO RECEIVE HIM;NOT ON THE CHANCE OF HIM NOT ATTACKING, BUT REATHER ON THE FACT THAT WE HAVE MADE OUR POSITION UNASSAILABLE. SUN TZU

ARE YOU LABORING UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT I READ THOSE MEMORANDA OF YOURS?, I CAN;T EVEN LEFT THEM. FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT

MAKE THE LIE BIG, MAKE IT SIMPLE, KEEP SAYING IT & EVENTUALLY THEY WILL BELIEVE IT.

THE VICTOR WILL NEVER BE ASKED IF HE TOLD THE TRUTH.

IF YOU TELL A BIG ENOUGH LIE, AND TELL IT FREQUENTLY ENOUGH IT WILL BE BELEIVED. ADOLPH HITLER

Sooo SOAPBOX

IS THIS WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO TELL THE ANTI-AMERICA MOONBAT TWINS.

I KNOW THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU THINK I SAID, BUT A AM NOT SURE YOU REALIZE THAT WHAT YOU HEARD IS NOT WHAT I MEANT. ROBERT McCLESKEY & SOAPBOX & COMPANY

SOAPBOX A FINAL WORD IS QUITE IN ORDER...., SOMETHING LIKE ........"LOVE YOU LONG TIME".

EAGLES IN THE WASH DC AREA PLEASE MEET WITH THE FOLKS FROM FREE REPUBLIC & NC EAGLES AT WALTER REED HOSP ON JUNE 30 SAT. AFTERNOON TO "CHAT" WITH CODE PINK.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO JOIN ME WITH ONE OF MY FLOCK OF YELLOW DUCKS TO TELL THE CONFUSED MOTHERS OF DRAFT AGE YOUNG CANNON FODDER, HOW VERY SORRY I AM SHE CANNOT COME EACH WEEK TO VISIT WITH HER OUN WOUNDED SON AS THEY FEEL THEY SO SO MUCH FOR "TROOP SUPPORT EACH WEEK ENDS AT W.R....

10 Posted On: June 27, 2007 at 9:55 PM By: George Samek
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To: deputydan
JOE 66, I HAVE A FEW JANE FONDA BUMPER STICKERS FOR HIM. CAN YOU HEAR THE SOUND OF A HUNGRY MOONBATS?, JUST WAIT, ALL HELL WILL BREAK OUT AFTER THEY FIGURE OUT THEY ARE SOOO BUSTED.

OK JOE. REFERANCE TROLLS & SOCKPUPPETS

IT ISN'T WHAT WE DON'T KNOW THAT GIVES US TROUBLE IT;S WHAT WE KNOW AIN;T SO . WILL ROGERS

IF YOU EVER GET DOWN TO SHALLOTTE NC YOU HAVE A PLACE AT THE DINNER TABLE ANYTIME.

11 Posted On: June 27, 2007 at 10:18 PM By: George Samek
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To: deputydan
Mr Samek

Your points are well taken & understood. You are wise beyond your years.

Yet is it not true that when one is surrounded by wolves it is best to act like a wolf..

I shall strive to do better, for I know:

"If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles" Sun Tzu

12 Posted On: June 28, 2007 at 12:02 AM By: Soapbox
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To: deputydan
SOAPBOX

AS I ONLY HAVE A GOVERNMENT SCHOOL EDUCATION, & AM SUFFERING THE AFTER EFFECTS TO THIS DAY. I TIP MY HAT SIR.

Sooo SOAPBOX

ALL MEN CAN SEE THOSE TACTICS WHEREBY I CONQUER, BUT WHAT NONE SEE IS THE STRATEGY OUT WHICH VICTORY IS EVOLVED

SUN TZU

& MOTHER SAMEKS BABY BOY GEORGE

13 Posted On: June 28, 2007 at 12:28 AM By: George Samek
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To: deputydan
SOAPBOX

MIGHT THE GATHERING OF EAGLES RULES FOR DEALING WITH TROLLS & SOCKPUPPETS BEST BE UNDERSTOOD WITH THESE WORDS OF WISDOM.

FOR TO WIN ONE HUNDRED VICTORYS IN ONE HUNDRED BATTLES IS NOT THE ACME OF SKILL. TO SUBDUE THE ENEMY WITHOUT FIGHTING IS THE ACME OF SKILL SUN TZU & THE GATHERING OF EAGLES

14 Posted On: June 28, 2007 at 12:59 AM By: George Samek
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To: deputydan
Mr S

As I have stated before; You are a wise man

Good night

15 Posted On: June 28, 2007 at 2:18 AM By: Soapbox
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To: deputydan
MR SOAPBOX,, MY LEARNED BROTHER.

I AM NOT THE SMARTEST FELLOW IN THE WORLD, BUT I CAN SURE PICK SMART COLLEAGUES. FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT.

SOAPBOX, I FEEL SURE YOU WILL AGREE.

THERE ARE THREE KINDS OF MEN., THE ONES THAT LEARN BY READING. THE FELLOW WHO LEARNS BY OBSERVATION THE REST OF THEM HAVE TO PEE ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE FOR THEMSELVES. WILL ROGERS

EAGLES ARE ALWAYS IN THE FIRST & SECOND GROUP.

MOONBATS, TROLLS, & SOCKPUPPETS MUST ALWAYS STEP UP TO WIZZ ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE.

THE GIFT YOU SENT ME WILL BE USED FRIDAY TO GET THE ATTENTION OF THE GAGGLE OF CONFUSED "VISITORS" DRESS IN PINK AT W.R. I HOPE THEY WILL UNDERSTAND.THE MOTHER OF ALL DUCKS WHEN SHE SAYS.

QUACK!!, QUACK!!. IN YOUR FACE MOONBATS !!!.WITH NO CLASS!!., RESPECT!!,. OR HEART!!. ,GO PICK UP BUFFIE & THOR FROM THE MALL.,..GO HOME & PRAY FOR A WOUNDED SOLDIER., SHAME ON EACH & EVERY ONE OF YOU.!!.

THERE ARE THREE PLACES YOU DO NOT PROTEST.....EVER.,..

1. THE GRAVE SIDE OF A TROOPER KILLED IN COMBAT. 2.. THE HOSPITAL WHERE THE TROOPER IS RECOVERING FROM WOUNDS RECEIVED IN COMBAT 3.. THE HOLY GROUND WHERE THE VIETNAM WALL STANDS TO HONOR THOSE WHO GAVE THEIR LIFE, FOR FREEDOM..

PICTURES WILL BE POSTED TO THE NC EAGLES NEST OF W.R., FT. MONMOUTH, & TOMS RIVER NJ. LOOK FOR THEM AT. http://www.myspace.com/samek1105

16 Posted On: June 28, 2007 at 10:33 AM By: George Samek
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To: deputydan
Mr Samek

I am humbled by your words for I am but a simply farmboy form Wisconsin.

May angels surround you as you travel on your mission to honor those who serve so that we might live safe & free.

Please pass on my best to everyone. I wish I could be there with you on the rally line.

17 Posted On: June 28, 2007 at 10:59 AM By: Soapbox
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To: deputydan
ALL GOOD TO YOU SOAPBOX. ,

I FEAR FOR MY COUNTRY, MY WAY OF LIFE, AND THE FUTURE OF UNBORN GENERATIONS OF AMERICANS.

THE "FEEL GOOD, PC GENERATION "MIGHTWELL BE THE LAST TO LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE & THE HOME OF THE BRAVE.

SHAME ON ALL WHO WISH TO DISTROY AMERICA FOR THE POLITICAL POWER & PERSONAL GAIN.

18 Posted On: June 28, 2007 at 2:12 PM By: George Samek
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To: deputydan
HEY FRANK..................BOO!!!!
19 Posted On: June 29, 2007 at 2:07 AM By: MikeBSuffolk
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